In February the baton, or perhaps more accurately the truncheon will be passed. Robert McDougall, who understudied Hayden Tee as Javert in Cameron Mackintosh’s production of Les Misérables for three years, will take on the role as lead in Pakemin’s production at the Riverside Theatre. We got a chance to chat with the two performers on the eve of McDougall’s exciting step and just as Tee embarked on a mini tour of his cabaret show “Hayden Tee: Up Close and Intimate”.
How do you approach a character that is now so embedded in the musical world psyche? How much room is there for you to bring something new or something personal to the role?
Hayden: It’s always going to be different, because we’re different people. It’s always going to be through a different lens. For me, I try to forget all other interpretations and just read the script and approach it as if I were the first person to perform the role. At the same time, I try not to fall into the trap of just making it different just for the sake of it.
Robert: For this production, as Hayden said, I’ve just gone back through the script and tried to get rid of any preconceptions I have about the role. After all, I obviously have two previous interpretations in my head – Philip Quast and Hayden Tee. I don’t want to replicate their vocal mannerisms and phrasing, without having thought about them. Of course, if I think through their choices and it works for me, that’s fine, but I want to avoid mindless replication.
Hayden: That’s right. I also still have Philip in my head at times, because I grew up with his interpretation.
Robert, how many times did you get to step into the role over the three years?
Four times.
Robert, as you start rehearsals for the role with Packemin, are there any elements of the tour that you will keep with you?
Of course. Even though I am trying to tear it down and start again, so that I can get the feeling of it being mine, I’m sure big chunks of it are going to be similar to the way we did it in the Australian tour. The text is the text and you can’t change the character as written. There are boundaries you have to stay within.
Hayden, what advice would you give Robert as he takes the role on?
There are many ways to skin a cat. I’ve never given another actor a note in my life, and I’m not about to start now. However, if it’s helpful for Rob, my approach was not to make him a villain. Javert is an antagonist. His function is to put pressure on Jean Valjean to make certain decisions. I’ve always made it a priority to ensure that the audience understood why he did the things he did in the end.
What was a favourite moment in the production for you?
Hayden: My favourite moment to perform is ‘Stars’, but my favourite moment in the show comes at the very end during Valjean’s death when he sings, “Alone I wait in the shadows”. It’s such a beautiful moment in the show and it’s what we’ve been building up to the entire evening. For me, it’s the emotional and musical pay-off.
Robert: ‘Stars’ obviously, however as I performed the role of the Bishop for a while, I really love the end of the prologue between him and Valjean, which lays down the path that Valjean will take for the rest of the show. It’s really the first proper melody we hear, and I always loved performing that scene.
Hayden: You made a wonderful Bishop and sang it so beautifully.
What do you focus on with a character like Javert to keep them likeable, or at least have the audience love to hate them? How do you keep him human?
Hayden: It’s about justifying the things he does. He does bad things for good reasons. He never does something just for the sake of it or causing pain. He is essentially a good person, who’s just doing his job and if you focus on that truth, the rest takes care of itself.
Robert: I’ve seen productions in which Javert has been played as a villain, but my view is that he’s business-like and doing his job. All the way through to Paris we only see him through this professional guise, and then ‘Stars’ happens and we get a glimpse inside his head and understand what drives him to do the things he does. If you play him as a bad guy up until that point, ‘Stars’ doesn’t have that buy-in.
Robert, you were a finalist in the Rob Guest Endowment Award. He was another famous Les Misérables star on Australian stages. There are a number of performers including Philip Quast that are permanently linked to a Les Mis performance here in Australia (and in nearly every country in the world). What is it about Les Mis that keeps it so high on everyone’s list of favourite shows and establishes musical singers’ reputations?
Robert: The show itself has a particular space in the musical theatre canon and I think it’s because of the scale and the epic nature of the story, which takes place over 25-30 years, and that allows the stakes of the show to be much higher than they are in a show that takes place over a few weeks or months, which is the case in most modern musicals. In Les Mis, you get the sense that you’re witnessing a movement in history, which creates this grand scale we’re used to seeing, for example, in the Ancient Greek epics. They were world changing events and that’s what Les Mis feels like too. I think that’s why people like to delve into it and find an individual story they identify with. Musically, there are only six or seven themes that get reused throughout, but it’s a brilliant use of leitmotif whereby each theme becomes associated with a particular character or emotion. This succeeds in taking Victor Hugo’s incredibly dense text and making it digestible, because the music tells you what emotion you should feel at any given moment and which character you should be focusing on. In turn the actors playing those characters become embedded in your mind as well.
Hayden: I agree. I challenge anybody to not be able to find a way into the story and identify with it on some level. As Rob says, it’s definitely about something bigger than us. It’s about hope and the human condition, and that’s accessible to all of us.
Robert: And you can’t really tell that epic story without telling it on such a grand scale.
Hayden, you’ve performed the role around the world. Like Rob Guest and Philip Quast, you are part of the legacy of Les Mis. How do you feel about that?
Hayden: I am very grateful for the opportunities the show has given me. In answer to your previous question, the fact that Les Mis has been performed everywhere and is so successful lends kudos to anyone who’s performed in it – stage cred, if you like. However, I don’t think I’ll ever be able to compete with those two. I look up to both of them so much. I went to the same high school as Rob Guest. He won the Drama Cup and then so did I. I’m not comparing myself to him at all. The point is, I literally grew up watching Rob and I’ve followed Philip Quast ever since he appeared in the 10th Anniversary concert of Les Mis.
Robert: Would you believe that Philip Quast is actually from the Tamworth region like me!
Hayden: I had no idea.
Robert: That’s a thing! Tamworth – where we grow our Australian Javerts. [both laugh]
Hayden, how was it performing Matilda’s Miss Trunchbull on the London stage?
Hayden: Matilda is my favourite musical of all time. I saw the first preview on Broadway and I fell in love with it and that role. It was a dream-come-true to be cast in the show. I got my visa to the UK with the aim of performing that role, because at that time it was the only production of Matilda still playing anywhere in the world. It was ticking off a box on my bucket list and a dream role. I’m very grateful for the experience, but at the same time it was the hardest job I’ve had. It was physically and mentally the toughest role I’ve ever played. I think it’s important to talk about these things and I have to say I’ve never questioned my mental health as much as I did on that show. You know … never meet your heroes or play your dream roles. Trunchbull does bad things for bad reasons. She gains pleasure out of mistreating the children. That’s why, whenever I talk about Javert, I always say he’s not the villain. He does bad things for the right reasons. That’s a very different headspace to be in.
Hayden, you have been performing all over the world and this is your first Australian performance since 2017. What are the highlights of the past couple of years?
Javert has been a highlight. I just finished playing him earlier in December and I know it’s not going to be the last time. Obviously, my Broadway debut was a highlight. It was something I’d always dreamt of and worked for. I’ll never forget that. And the families I’ve created around the world. I love travelling for work and I love the fact that I now have a London family, a New York family, my real New Zealand family and, of course, my Australian family. It’s always about the people around you, onstage and off.
Hayden, what has been the most difficult thing with a long tour followed up by the overseas work?
Hayden: I made a conscious decision to travel around the world the way I do because I want to be paid to do what I love. By opening up four markets, I’ve given myself four-times the opportunity to work. However, it’s not glamorous and it comes at a price. In order to do that I’ve had to sacrifice relationships and that means a single life. I find that very difficult at times because I’d like to be focused on something other than myself and my career. That’s why I think I’m going to get a puppy.
Robert, Assassins was a huge hit in Sydney. What was that experience like?
It had a great group of actors. If Les Mis made me realise I could be an actor, Assassins was the first time I felt I’d earned my place from the outset. [Hayden applauds] It was a wonderful experience and I had the opportunity to create this truly disgusting character of the Proprietor of the pop-gun sideshow. David Campbell and the entire company were a dream to work with. There were no downsides to that show.
Hayden: I love that show so much! It revolutionised the way we understand the structure of the musical. I wish I’d had the chance to see it. That scene between John Wilkes Booth and Lee Harvey Oswald is seminal musical theatre. It provides such incredible insight into mental health, America and politics … all the things I love.
Robert: Me too! I’m a political nerd.
Hayden: I know!
Robert, you are a conductor having worked in that role for many shows including Beauty and the Beast and Little Shop of Horrors. What is it like to put down the baton and step into the spotlight?
Robert: I’ve never really thought of it like that, because I came the other way. I was a singer first, and then I became a conductor. However, it makes you appreciate a good conductor in a musical director role. When you have someone who knows what they’re doing – someone who can control a room in a rehearsal situation and has the orchestra in the palm of their hand – you appreciate their craft. It’s a lot more complicated than people think it is. In most scores, you’re keeping track of 22 or 23 moving parts plus the vocalists and you have to coordinate them all. When something goes wrong on stage, the musical director’s job is to fix it. In a show like Les Misérables, which is through-composed, that dude is in the hot seat!
Robert, what is your preference conducting or performing?
Robert: That’s an interesting question. I don’t really know. They’re such different joys and they require different mindsets and skill sets. There’s much more maths in conducting than there is in singing and it’s nice to use the area of my brain that doesn’t get used that often. I really love conducting, but I also love performing, so if were forced to pick one, I’d have to pick performing.
Hayden: I’d like to weigh in now, because it’s a realisation I’ve only recently had, but you should do all the things that make you happy together. It will make such a difference to your life. If I can give you one piece of life advice as a person with more than one passion, do everything that makes you happy!
Robert: That’s what happened with the Epiphanies concerts in Tamworth and Sydney. I ended up hosting, conducting the first half, singing in the second half … and we raised money for Mental Health Research!
Hayden: [cheers and applauds]
Hayden, how long has it taken to put together Up Close and Intimate?
Well, I wrote it while I was on holiday in Tahiti, but it’s changed a lot as I’ve rehearsed with my musical director Nigel Ubrihien. However, the subject matter has taken 39 years. It’s taken me that long to be able to stand up on stage and be my authentic self, rather than another character. That’s not something I do very often.
Hayden, what can we expect from this show:
Me.
Hayden, what is next?
I’m doing this concert tour around the country and more countries will be added soon, so watch this space!
What draws you a role?
Hayden: Therapy – if I need to work through something and I can find something in there that will help me.
Robert: Intellectual interest, usually.
Hayden: That says so much about us! [laughs]
Who is the one person (dead or alive), you would like/would have liked to work with?
Robert: John Farnham
Hayden: Hal Prince – he was amazing not only as a producer, but as a director as well.
What is the most valuable piece of advice that you have been given?
Robert: “The harder you work, the luckier you get.”
Hayden: “Luck is where opportunity meets preparation.”
Who has inspired you the most personally or professionally?
Hayden: My Nanna – possibly even more so posthumously.
Robert: I’d have to say my dad. It’s a personal thing, not professional. I find myself consistently aspiring to be as likeable as my father.
Hayden: He is a lovely man, and you are just as likeable!
Robert: I’m really not. He’s an extraordinarily affable man … I’m a grouch.
Hayden: I’d never describe you that way.
Do you have a theatre superstition?
Robert: I don’t think so. I’m not a hugely superstitious person. However, I do have a ritual of sorts. I find that if I’m nervous during a show, I’ll feel exhausted until 30 seconds before I go on and the adrenalin kicks in. My response to stress is to get tired, so I’m a napper. During Les Mis, I even used to have a 5-minute nap at interval.
Hayden: There are so many, but I usually tend to break them. You know, like not mentioning the real title of the ‘Scottish Play’ or whistling in a theatre. However, I tend to find that discovering the root of those superstitions often diffuses them. In the past, if you whistled the set could change, because it would confuse the sailors who were employed as riggers and used coded whistles to communicate. Of course, that doesn’t apply these days.
If you could send out a tweet that would reach the entire world, what would it say?
Robert: I’ve never tweeted in my life.
Hayden: Buy my album Face to Face, available on all digital platforms and Amazon.
Les Misérables starring Robert McDougall as Javert plays at the Riverside Theatre in Parramatta from 14-29 February.
Tickets are available at: https://riversideparramatta.com.au/show/les-miserables-2020/
Hayden Tee will be performing at the Garden of Light in Tyalgum on January 4: https://bit.ly/2qZ8nU9 and Gold Coast HOTA – Home of the Arts on January 6: https://bit.ly/35v791I
