Peter Maple In Conversation with Debbie Zukerman and Alicia Gonzalez, the clowning couple behind the invention of You’ll Never Guess Where I Hid the Cheese. Superheroes, clowning, music, dance, audience participation, Evil Mr. Cheeseheads – a kids’ show serving up a full platter for the whole family.
Can you each tell me what you believe makes for an effective dynamic duo?
Debbie: Laughing is the number one ingredient in any dynamic duo! Alicia and I laugh our way through all our rehearsals. Number two ingredient is that you have to be able to rely on each other. (I’ve worked with plenty of people who mean well but don’t do what they say they’re going to do.) Alicia always does what she commits to do – she’ll get it done – it doesn’t matter who, what, when, how.
Alicia: It’s a 3-step success program: One must be taller than the other for hard-to-reach places. Laughter (the type that hurts your face). And – Not taking everything seriously all the time.
What is your duo’s origin story? How did you meet, and decide to Join Forces?
Debbie: I wish I could say we met at a pie eating contest! Or, we were seated next to each other on a flight to Azerbaijan! But, it was much simpler than that. The straight forward answer is that Alicia appeared one day at a clown jam Choo Choo Troupe were running-
Alicia: -I met Debbie at our Choo Choo clown jams. It was definitely clown-at-first-sight.
Oh gosh, I hope she felt the same way…?
Debbie: Clown jams are like a garage band jamming, but, with clowns…
A number of people who were really heavily involved at the start moved on – but Alicia never left! So, there we were – steering the ship! If it wasn’t for Alicia joining up and sharing that creaky steering wheel, I suspect we would have shut up shop by now.
What is YOUR greatest strength?
Debbie: My greatest strength, as is often the case with these things, is also a kind of weakness.
I can keep working as long as there are still things to do. And when you’re putting on a show, there are always things to do. Be it making props; developing the show itself; or marketing and social media – the list goes on, and on and on… until you’re just simply obsessed…!
Or, actually, my greatest strength is probably that I’m just really funny.
Alicia: I hope to see myself climbing the clown ladder someday, unfortunately the clown ladder doesn’t really get you anywhere, as I’d be miming it… So, I’d have to say that I am very good at mime. People always appreciate a good mime, don’t they? Errr…
What is YOUR PARTNER’S greatest strength?
Debbie: Alicia’s greatest strength is her instinct for story. And her physical clarity as a performer. You’ll see if you come to the show! Every movement is so precise, but also super natural. And her comic timing is bang on.
Alicia: Debbie is extremely hard working. I don’t think she even sleeps!
Debbie gets stuff done. And she doesn’t fuss around; and I LOVE that about her.
Plus, she’s really funny – and I like the way she interprets the world. She is really unique – an original – one-of-a-kind – and Debbie is never far from a great punch line. She is a fantastic comic improviser.
When COMBINED, how do you elevate each other? What do you elevate each other to?
Debbie: We’re both good listeners, which helps with both the creative business and the business business.
If there is any kind of disagreement (be it creative or commercial), we just talk it out until we find the appropriate agreed solution. This natural lack of judgement in our communication also means that we are both free to be wrong, and to be silly, and to make bad jokes – which is really useful in comedy!
Alicia: A lot of synchronised “yay’s!”. And if there’s ever an issue, we instinctively allow some time to whine! and break the tension with a puerile joke or anecdote! I think we’re very good at listening to each other and giving each other space to voice any concerns.
What inspired the creation of this show?
Debbie: I guess it happened a bit back to front. First, we had a title-
Alicia: – Steve (Meagher), who plays the music in the show, came up with the title well before we had written anything – You’ll Never Guess Where I Hid the Cheese.
Debbie: So – in short – a silly title made up by Steve inspired the creation of the show! Then we were offered a slot at Sydney Fringe last year, then we decided to make it a kids’ show, and then Alicia came on board, and voila Mr. Cheesehead was born!
Alicia: I’d always wanted to create a kids’ show, and this was the perfect opportunity.
Do you have a favourite superhero yourself? And why?
Debbie: It has to be Wonder Woman! The recent film was so moving, I think I actually cried. Being of my generation, I grew up with Ninja Turtles (boys), Transformers (boys) and Smurfs (boys, except one). I didn’t even know what I was missing, until recently, with more and more women being cast in heroic roles. And she’s also just a really cool superhero. (And that’s a little bit of what we’re trying to provide here with Mr. Cheesehead – in a fun and mad-cap way).
Alicia: Yes. Undoubtedly. Her name is ‘Bobbi-Woman’! And, she makes an appearance in our show. You’ll have to come and see for yourselves.
Do you have a favourite clown? And why?
Alicia: My dad! He is a naturally gifted clown, and I learnt all my cheek from him.
Hi Dad!
Debbie: Most people probably haven’t heard of my favourite clown – Neal Portenza (aka Josh Ladgrove). He is an Australian performer who gives so much joy in his performances that the whole room spills over with it, and the audience leaves feeling so much lighter for it. If you’re lucky, you’ve caught him at a comedy festival somewhere, because sadly, as of this month, he’s ‘retired’.
[Portenza has toured local and international festivals for about 8 years (I think that’s right…). Only this year he announced during his Melbourne Comedy Festival Show that he will no longer be performing at festivals anymore. This is because of the enormous expense and lack of financial security going forward. It’s unclear whether he’s quitting performing altogether… He’s certainly not the first unique talent to stop performing in Australia. A lot of people move overseas because there are such limited opportunities here, and festivals can be a loss-making venture… That’s a real shame for Australia.]
Did you have a favourite silly children’s show growing up?
Debbie: You know, I watched plenty of TV, but most of it doesn’t really stand out. I know I liked Captain Planet. And I wasn’t into Gumby.
Alicia: I liked watching the 80s cult classic You Can’t Do That On Television – a Canadian children’s sketch-comedy show. They used to regularly douse child actors with green slime, spaghetti, and mud, etc. It looked like fun at the time! (I heard that the producers of the show were sued for green slime toxicity….! Eek!).
And, most importantly, what’s your favourite cheese?
Debbie: I am really not a connoisseur when it comes to cheese. I’ll eat just about anything. As long as it isn’t blue! But, maybe, I like the hard, holey Dutch cheeses the best?
Alicia: My favourite cheese is the stinky blue vein cheese! The one that Debbie hates!
“A cheese by any other name would smell as sweet”…? Enjoy the show!
You’ll Never Guess Where I Hid The Cheese
Debbie Zukerman with improv troupe Post-Its, sketch company The Kvetch Set Collective and (obvs) Choo Choo Troupe
Saturday April 28 Time: 12:30pm
Venue: Factory Theatre, Marrickville
Theatre Company: Aprox 5N/A0 Min
Duration: Aprox 50 Min
